Rep. Christine Canavan on the MA gay marriage vote

Having resisted efforts to be lobbied by the state's most powerful political leaders, state Rep. Christine Canavan had largely been written off as a potential vote change by marriage equality activists early in the effort to defeat an anti-gay constitutional amendment. So the Brockton Democrat's "no" vote at the June 14 constitutional convention (ConCon) was a shocker for advocates on both sides of the issue, not to mention her husband of 38 years, Paul. In an interview with Bay Windows on June 20 Canavan, who serves as Second Division Chair in the House, spoke for the first time since last week's ConCon about how, after three years of voting the way she believed the majority of her district wanted her to, she decided to follow her conscience.

Her previous votes put her at odds with the LGBT community in the Brockton-Easton-West Bridgewater district she has represented since 1993 and Canavan conceded that the pressure she received from marriage equality advocates only steeled her resolve to continuously vote in favor of amending the constitution. Canavan, who was one of nine legislators whose change of heart sealed the amendment's defeat, expressed the hope that her vote last week is a step toward mending fences. Read on for Canavan's candid take on her decision to finally cast a vote in favor of marriage equality.

Q: What's it been like these past few days? I know that your vote surprised folks on both sides of the issue.
A: What's it been like the past few days? Well, actually, inside my own heart and soul it's been very peaceful. But I have stayed away from situations and I have not picked up the phone if the caller I.D. cannot identify who it is so that I can avoid the fringe elements of either side in order to just - oh, I don't know how to explain it. I never wanted to vote the way I had been the past several years. I had fully expected when the entire amendment came up way back three and a half years ago, that I was going to vote against it. Then my district started calling me about "Well, why can't I vote, why can't I vote?" And I was taken totally by surprise. I then called several people on my own whose opinions I respected who had been very helpful in the campaigns and found that there was a good amount of people who wanted to vote on it. So I did and every time I pressed the button I wasn't too happy.

And then the more flak I got from the families and the gays and lesbians themselves in my area - even though I don't fault them for it, because I would have been very upset if it had been me - but it just made me angry and so it kind of made me more steadfast and just continue to vote to put them on the ballot. No matter what the question was, as anyone can see from my record, it didn't matter what the question was. And then when this one came up here, it was the final vote. It was the vote that really meant something, that would actually have initiated something good or bad and it was just very anguishing for me. It was terrible. It was terrible.

Q: How so?
A: I didn't want to vote the way I had been and I believed to some extent - I'm not convinced - but I believe that enough time has gone by that most of my district is not as keen on seeing the question on the ballot. I don't know if that's true but I think that a lot of people - I think a lot of people feel, "Well who cares, just leave them all alone. Let everybody be." And I thought that maybe, well maybe I just haven't heard from [amendment supporters] because people expect me to vote a certain way. And then I just said, "The heck with it." And I had not decided truthfully how I was going to vote until late the night before.

Q: Oh my gosh.
A: Even as I walked into the chamber and sat down it was still very much to me, like, 'Oh my God.' And I've never hid anything from people in my life. This was one of the worst experiences of my life. ... I just wanted it over and I wanted my vote to be recorded as not wanting to put the state through any more of this. And just accepting the fact that people need to understand that nothing has changed [with gay marriage]. ... I also thought about how horrific, how absolutely horrific it would be next fall with any kind of campaign if this was a ballot question. It would be hateful, the fringe elements on both sides would make it hateful, children would be hearing all of this - [they] would be exposed to it. Those three days [of the 2004 constitutional convention] I went through in the beginning were awful enough and I didn't want to go through anything for months next year. And I kept thinking I have grandchildren ... now do I want my 5-year-old granddaughter - she's actually almost 6 - hearing this? Because I don't want them to grow up hating anybody for any reasons. ... There really is not one specific reason why I changed my vote. I know that it surprised people on both sides because I kept it close to the vest.

Q: I spoke with Sarah Peake after the vote and she said that she sits next to you-
A: She does.

Q: And she was so excited, she said you had tapped her on the shoulder -
A: Well, kind of. I didn't tap her on the shoulder. But I remember going in sitting down, and saying to Sarah, "Sarah, this must be very exciting for you to be able to vote on this." And she said, "I am more nervous now than I was when I got married." And so she voted and I didn't vote right away because it was a really big deal for me to turn around and change my vote like this. And I waited and I knew that I wanted to - I like Sarah very, very much and I wanted to make it important to her - and I reached over and I grabbed her, I held her forearm ... and I said, "Sarah, what color should I be?" and she kind of didn't know what I was saying and she just looked at me and I said, "Watch this," and I pressed the [red button]. She was just ecstatic. ... She had spoken to me before and she knew that I had no problem with gay marriage whatsoever and that it was mostly a district thing that was just tearing my guts out. But I wanted it to mean something to her and so that's how it really happened. ... And then I remember she gave me this huge hug and she was jumping up and down and hootin' and hollerin.' She was watching to see how the numbers would come out and then she was jumping up and down. So it was you know, I gotta tell ya, I don't know if I sealed my defeat in the election next year or not, but what the heck.

Q: So far no one who has supported gay marriage has been defeated. Do you find consolation in that?
A: A little bit. But you know, it has to be proven to me for my [district]. Understand I'm not a lawyer, I'm not an insurance agent that happens to be in the legislature. I'm a registered nurse and for me, my fundraisers are $15 spaghetti suppers. And I don't have, $100,000 or $150,000 or whatever people who have fundraisers do so I always worry that there's going to be someone so well-financed that they're just going to be able to buy the election. And I don't know for sure, I know that there are many people in my district who have no problem with gay marriage at all and they wanted to vote. Then I know there's many people who have no problem at all and don't want to vote. And I don't know how many are silent just so they don't engender an argument [who] might go in the ballot box and vote against putting a change in the constitution. So I don't really know those numbers.

During the process my district was targeted [by MassEquality canvassers] and people went around and knocked on doors and asked to call me to change my vote. I sometimes got - not tens and twenties, maybe less than 10 - but I would get some phone calls back from people who would say, "I only made that call because someone was standing there and dialed the phone and handed it to me." You know a few like that. And that kind of bothered me a little bit, that people actually wanted to call me back and tell me that they actually wanted it on the [ballot]. I don't know - it's been an extremely strange time.

Q: Did you consult with other folks in the legislature or your constituents? It sounds like you made this decision on your own.
A: I rely heavily on my husband. My husband is actually extremely astute about all things political and he can see - like that old saying goes - "the pulse of the people" because he belongs to so many clubs in the area and he's so active, whether it's the VFW, or the French Club or the White Eagles or the Italian Bocci Club or whatever [laughs]. When he hears people talking - and I'll tell you it's amazing when you go to those places and you hear people, what they're talking about is basically a good [way] to figure if the rest of the district is [feeling] the same way. And I asked him, "I said what are you hearing?" He says, "People just aren't talking about it the way they used to." He said, "You'll always have your haters." And I drove the poor guy crazy for two weeks, so finally he said to me, "You have to stop anguishing about this and just make a decision about what you're going to do and do it. And I talked to a very dear friend, John Walsh, I've known him - God, it's got to be 15 or 20 years - I asked him what as the new chairman of the Democratic Party what he's hearing out there, what are their polling numbers. I did consult him on that. I talked to my son Derek, my oldest son, he's always good to bounce things off of. He's a history teacher in the city. And I raised both my kids to be very ... street smart and I raised them to be very tolerant of everyone and everything, so they're good to talk to. And I called my other son. And [State Rep.] Tom Kennedy, in the legislature, he's the only one of our delegation that actually voted [against the amendments] - it was a brief pass-by type thing. ... My father, but my father - it's a generational thing, he's 84 and the people he hangs with [Laughs] ... they really wanted to vote. I talked to a priest who calls me all the time, and, amazingly, he told me, rather than asking me point blank to vote to put it on the ballot, he basically did not ask me that this time. ... He basically said to me, "Christine vote your conscience."

Q: Oh wow.
A: And that surprised me, not that he would have swayed me because he basically called me, I didn't call him, but I took the opportunity to talk to him. Then I basically [thought], I just can't have my vote - I didn't know what the vote was, I didn't know if it was going to pass or not pass and I didn't want my vote to be that one vote that could have put something on the ballot that would have done this to people.

Q: Everyone talks about how influential the governor and the House speaker were, but did you talk to them?
A: We talked, yup. Actually even Therese Murray, very briefly she caught me. Well we've been friends, Senate President Murray and I have been friends [since] we both came in together in 93 and we both covered the town of West Bridgewater, so we campaigned at the same time. She stopped me at a dinner and asked me if she could talk to me but we didn't we never did talk because I told her no, that I couldn't at that point in time. This was very early. Then the speaker was looking for me but I didn't return his phone calls for a couple of days. And the governor wanted to meet with me and I had all sorts of offers to meet with the governor. And I kept saying no, I didn't need to meet with the governor to make up my mind. And eventually on that last morning I did call and I said, "You know I do think I'd like to talk to him for just a minute. I wanted to find out what he experienced polling-wise - I mean he just ran for governor of the entire state, so he should have some idea of how the public feels. And I wanted to know that, I wanted some more confirmation to hear that.

But no nobody swayed me because nobody had to - it wasn't as if someone had to convince me about civil rights or about whether it's okay for gay marriage or anything else. I don't have a problem with that and I never have. It was ... representing my district and voting the way the majority of my district wanted [me to]. And I do think ... the majority is not as polarized on this as they used to be. So I felt comfortable changing my vote somewhat but it was still one of those things that I just don't know whether I am going to now pull a very right-wing fringe candidate running against me who could be financed, and I am not financed. Time will tell. I don't want to not get re-elected. I have some good pieces of legislation that I'm fighting for and I want to still be there to fight for them. My grandson has PKU [Phenylketonuria, a genetic disorder] for example, and I'm fighting for some PKU pieces and I would dearly love to be there. I would not like to not win the election and thereby not be there to fight for those.

Q: Are you worried?
A: I feel a little good about having voted the way I would have voted four years ago if my district had not asked me - the majority so to speak had not said what's wrong with letting us vote. You know Laura, in my district I have some large senior citizens housing complexes. One of them actually has over 300 apartments and it actually also is a polling place when there's voting. So they don't even have to get in a car, they just have to walk out of their apartment and walk downstairs and I heard a lot from people there who wanted just the right to vote. But I don't really think - I'll find out when I go there for office hours, if people start saying things to me, but I don't know.

I'm glad it's over. I'm just thoroughly glad it's over. ... I just couldn't understand creating three classes of people [married straight people, married gay people and banned-from-marrying gay people]. And I said that for the longest time. I just can't imagine how [the amendment] would have passed constitutional muster, how it would have passed the Supreme Court, I just can't imagine. I think it would have been immediately challenged if it had passed next fall. And I think it would have been suspended until the Supreme Court looked at it. I don't know how you could have three classes of people.

Q: Do you have any idea what your constituents think about your vote?
A: I got a nasty call on Father's Day. I picked up the phone because I had company coming and I figured that the "unknown" [on the caller I.D.] was one of the people coming. And I picked up the phone and it was a fellow. And he said to me, "Is this Christine Canavan?" And I said, "Yes it is." And he said, "That was a good vote you took the other day." And I said, "Well, thank you." And he said, "You're a disgrace to every father in the state of Massachusetts. And then I just kept saying, "Thank you," and he continued on. I said, "Thank you," and he continued and I said, "Thank you. And surprisingly that call didn't bother me."

Q: Really.
A: It didn't bother me. I was quite surprised and finally I kept saying to him, "What's your name? What's your name?" but he wouldn't tell me his name. And finally he said, "My name is Bill Votes." And I said, "What's your real name?" Finally I laid the phone down on the couch until the guy hung up and gave up because I wasn't going to hang up on him. But I said to my husband, "I can't believe he doesn't bother me; this doesn't bother me."

Q: That's creepy.
A: Yeah. Yeah.

Q: Did anyone in the leadership know how you were going to vote?
A: [On the day of the vote] I went to the speaker's office and told him how I was leaning. I am part of leadership and I wanted him to know that because I owe it to him. But the governor had no idea what I was doing. I left the governor's office not having told him what I would or wouldn't do.

Q: Did you purposely dodge the meeting with Senate President Murray?
A: No she never asked for one. We were at a dinner and she asked if she could talk to me and I said, "Terry you can talk to me about anything, what?" And then she brought [the amendment] up and I said, "No, I don't want to talk about that. I just can't talk about it. I can't talk about it anymore, it rips the guts out of me every time someone wants to talk to me about it."

So she said, we're friends [and that] she understood and it was no problem. And she stepped back and I appreciated that and I will always appreciate that.

But the day of the vote, I'm coming in [to the State House] and I'm very leery about somebody stopping me in the hallway as I'm coming from my car to my office. And I see three people walking real fast towards me that I don't recognize and I stepped aside from my door thinking they could go in and maybe they didn't know who I was. And I said, "Go ahead go on in," and they followed me when I walked away from my door [laughs]. And I actually put my hand up to push them away and I said, "I don't want to talk about gay marriage. Get away from me I don't want to talk about it. It was Ed Sullivan from the Mass. Teacher's Association. I had no idea. And he said, No, no, no. I just want to tell you that you have our support if you decide to change your vote. And I realized he wasn't someone that was hostile. I wasn't sure you know? [laughs.] And I let him come in the office and I said, "Thank you." But I also said to him, "Ed I don't know what I'm going to do. I know what I'm leaning. I know what I want to do, but I don't know what I'm going to do." And the first person actually who knew what I was going to do was Sarah Peake.

Q: Are you kidding me?
A: No. My husband didn't know. Nobody knew. I said to my husband, "I think I'm going to vote for everything that I want, that I think is right and in the best interest of everybody in the district, and if I'm going to not get re-elected next year then I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory." [laughs.] Might as well, you know? Might as well.

Q: Anything else you want to add?
A: For all the anger and all the very, very rude and cruel and what-have-you type e-mails that I received from both sides - I don't really hold it against anybody some of the horrific things that were said to me. I understand the passion behind it. What I would like to say though to anybody is that I hope that they will look at this final vote, because it was the only one that really counted, and that they will once again talk to me. You know what I mean? Because a lot of people are my friends and I just hope that I haven't - I hope this final vote, the vote that actually counted and meant something and the fact that I have took it totally risking whether or not I would get re-elected, that they would, I don't know, forgive me, I guess.